1zzfe Longevity

gramparsons

New member
What are we to expect out of this engine in terms of longevity?

A friend-of-a-friend is an Toyota mechanic, and I asked his opinion. He gave a guarded response, probably because I own one.

I know this is unscientific, but I thought I'd plant this as a seed to see what you guys thought.

His comments:

- not one of Toyo's best

- 150k w/o any problems should be easy (gee, I would expect the same out of a Dodge Neon)--again, totally subjective.

- If you ever start having engine trouble, get ride of it--he suggested that problems with this engine "snowball" into other issues.

I personally bought this car because of the following reaons

1) Toyota repuation for quality and durability

2) mileage

3) one of the lowest per-mile ownership costs (I commute 2 hours per day)

I've made no secret that I pretty much dislike the aesthetics of the car, much preferring the current (not new) Jetta TDI, but stayed away from it because of poor quality and ownership costs.

If this thing winks out at 150k, I'll be hard pressed to buy another Toyota.

I've got 55k on my '04 already, with no problems. I'd like to see 250, or even 300k, before she gives up. I have mostly highway miles, use Mobil 1, change at every 5000k, and even let the dealer rape me once every 30,000 miles.

What's a reasonable expectation?

 
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Bodhisattva

New member
I think a "reasonable expectation" would be close to 250K. When you consider the fact that you use synth lube and most of its miles are highway, I'd believe it would go that far, depending on your driving habits.

By the time it reaches 250K you'd probably be ready to cast it off and replace it anyway. You'd probably have to replace a water pump, alternator or other part during that period but I'd believe the engine and tranny would hold up, provided routine maintenance was kept up.

I read on Toyota's Planet Kaisen website about QC processes regarding their engines. One is selected at random from a completed lot and subjected to wide-open throttle running for 180 hours, so components like crankshaft, bearings, piston rods, etc. can be tested for strength and durability. Essentially, this test is the equivalent of driving your car at maximum speed for 7.5 days nonstop.

Check it out. http://www.toyota.com/html/planetkaizen/

 

gramparsons

New member
I think a "reasonable expectation" would be close to 250K. When you consider the fact that you use synth lube and most of its miles are highway, I'd believe it would go that far, depending on your driving habits.
By the time it reaches 250K you'd probably be ready to cast it off and replace it anyway. You'd probably have to replace a water pump, alternator or other part during that period but I'd believe the engine and tranny would hold up, provided routine maintenance was kept up.

I read on Toyota's Planet Kaisen website about QC processes regarding their engines. One is selected at random from a completed lot and subjected to wide-open throttle running for 180 hours, so components like crankshaft, bearings, piston rods, etc. can be tested for strength and durability. Essentially, this test is the equivalent of driving your car at maximum speed for 7.5 days nonstop.

Check it out. http://www.toyota.com/html/planetkaizen/
Yes, definitely, I'll be tired of it by 250k, but hopefully I'll have a play car that I love well before then.

Maybe:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/18/Autos/ford...gt500/index.htm

Whoa momma! Now that's a car I could rub on over the weekend? (Wax, you pervs)

Just drive the rolla until it catches on fire, and leave the burned out hull on the side of the road.

 

Bodhisattva

New member
That's pretty sweet.

My take - in light of the rise in fuel costs I'd be more inclined to look towards a vintage two-seater ragtop, or even a non-vintage like that new Honda S2000 or Miata for a plaything.

Raw, tire-burning horsepower will always remain a testosterone-inducing thrill for many, and its rennaissance of late has appealed to both young and old.

I guess from my vantage point I couldn't envision owning the new Shelby or Mustang because neither one would fit inside my garage.


 
T

Toyota-san

Guest
Its kinda like "how long is a piece of string"?

Depends.

I've had vehicles that the press, CR, R&T, C&D have dumped on almost unmercilessly yet proved to be sturdy, reliable, and fun to drive. An example would be the K-cars from Mopar.

Conversely, I've had vehicles that got glowing reviews but turned out to be duds. The only car that was "average" (in terms of press reviews and durability as well as my own experience, was a 95 Ford Taurus.) Other than the maddeninly lazy shifting transmission, this car was pretty reliable.

I guess durability, to an extent, is based on a definition that all must agree upon. For instance, is a Mazda or Honda that requires a timing belt replacement every 60K as "durable" as a Toyota or even a Suzuki product having a timing chain that needs no replacement? Or would one be considered "high maintenance" while the other is "low maintenance"?

 

sv11

New member
Some of the previous generation 1ZZ-FE (98-02) had oil consumption problems. I believe the current generation ones are ok. Toyota was using the 4A engine in the corolla for 15 years or so and they retired it in 97 and put an all new engine in the 98. Since the 1ZZ-FE engine was totally new, I suspect they were working through some issues in the first generation.

sv11

 

gramparsons

New member
I guess durability, to an extent, is based on a definition that all must agree upon. For instance, is a Mazda or Honda that requires a timing belt replacement every 60K as "durable" as a Toyota or even a Suzuki product having a timing chain that needs no replacement? Or would one be considered "high maintenance" while the other is "low maintenance"?
That's not what I'm talking about.

Durability, for me, is how long a car will last without requiring very expensive repairs. For example, at 150,000 miles, the Corolla will be worth very little. It might not make very good sense to replace the engine at this point if it fails. That's not my idea of "durability".

My idea of "durability" is a good balance of low service costs and yet long service life. The timing belt issue was one thing that led me to the Corolla over the Civic.

In my estimation, with the way I treat and maintain this car, anything less than 250k will be a disappointment.

 
T

Toyota-san

Guest
I guess durability, to an extent, is based on a definition that all must agree upon.  For instance, is a Mazda or Honda that requires a timing belt replacement every 60K as "durable" as a Toyota or even a Suzuki product having a timing chain that needs no replacement?  Or would one be considered "high maintenance" while the other is "low maintenance"?
That's not what I'm talking about.

Durability, for me, is how long a car will last without requiring very expensive repairs. For example, at 150,000 miles, the Corolla will be worth very little. It might not make very good sense to replace the engine at this point if it fails. That's not my idea of "durability".

My idea of "durability" is a good balance of low service costs and yet long service life. The timing belt issue was one thing that led me to the Corolla over the Civic.

In my estimation, with the way I treat and maintain this car, anything less than 250k will be a disappointment.
that's fine and dandy.

However, a coworker was satisfied with his Cavalier and none the less disappointed that he had to replace the transmission at 95K. Now he drives a Saturn, had tons of troubles, and is thinking about getting a Cobalt all because of his experience with his Cavalier. Different expectations!

Another co worker had no issue at all in replacing timing belts on his Civic every 60K. She considered her Civic to be durable.

In both instances, my peers were perfectly "satisfied" with their rides.

Once again, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Its all in how you look at it.

 

c2105026

New member
Even if it isn't one of toyota's best it will probably still last longer than i'd want to keep it. An imperfect toyota motor is probably still better than any ford/GM/Chrysler motor.

Even if it isn't toyotas best reliability effort, at least the motor has extra character and fizz.........it's from the MR2 so it has to be. why go an extra 100k miles if those miles are just going to be boring...

 

BobLevine

New member
Regardless of most people's opinion of Fords, Crown Vic taxis routinely run 250K+ miles before being scrapped.

Checker cabs would do 300-500K.

 

Larry Roll

New member
I see no reason why any carefully driven and well-maintained automobile should not last 300 - 500,000 miles. From 1996 to 2000, I worked a full-time 7-days a week job as an airport shuttle pilot driving a fleet of 3 1996 Plymouth Voyager minivans between Dover, Delaware and the Baltimore and Philadelphia airports. I personally put almost a half-million miles on this fleet, and they held up remarkably well in spite of their poor reputation for durability and my boss' penny-pinching maintenence. Two out of three had transmissions replaced, and one of them had the engine replaced as well. One (the one I drove the most) went the whole way -- over 400,000 miles, on the original engine/tranny with only some electrical problems. Of course, they were getting 99% highway mileage. This experience may not necessary be relevant to a Corolla forum, but gives a good example of what's possible in terms of modern vehicle longevity.

I would expect my Corolla to literally last forever considering it's low utilization (less than 13,000 miles per year) and over-maintenence (Mobil 1 and Toyota filter changed every 3K). Sure, stuff like brakes will get worn out and be replaced. But the basic car should be capable of lasting me a good long time. At two years and 27,700 miles, I'm just getting started!

 

gramparsons

New member
I guess durability, to an extent, is based on a definition that all must agree upon.  For instance, is a Mazda or Honda that requires a timing belt replacement every 60K as "durable" as a Toyota or even a Suzuki product having a timing chain that needs no replacement?  Or would one be considered "high maintenance" while the other is "low maintenance"?
That's not what I'm talking about.

Durability, for me, is how long a car will last without requiring very expensive repairs. For example, at 150,000 miles, the Corolla will be worth very little. It might not make very good sense to replace the engine at this point if it fails. That's not my idea of "durability".

My idea of "durability" is a good balance of low service costs and yet long service life. The timing belt issue was one thing that led me to the Corolla over the Civic.

In my estimation, with the way I treat and maintain this car, anything less than 250k will be a disappointment.
that's fine and dandy.

However, a coworker was satisfied with his Cavalier and none the less disappointed that he had to replace the transmission at 95K. Now he drives a Saturn, had tons of troubles, and is thinking about getting a Cobalt all because of his experience with his Cavalier. Different expectations!

Another co worker had no issue at all in replacing timing belts on his Civic every 60K. She considered her Civic to be durable.

In both instances, my peers were perfectly "satisfied" with their rides.

Once again, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Its all in how you look at it.
I would not be satisfied with the Cavalier or the Saturn you mentioned . . and I don't believe I suggested that.

I was just asking a simple question: how long should we expect the 1zzfe engine to last?

What's so hard about that? Other folks didn't seem to have trouble giving direct answers. I think I see your point, but it's not relevant to the question.

 

Lethal 7

New member
I'm more worried about the car lasting instead rather than the engine. At 3 years my car is a rattle box and that stupid radio gap is now huge. Bumper to Bumper warranty is up and for the 4th time the passenger side weatherstipping is falling off. Nice. I can see myself selling this car before the engine dies from old age....which is too bad as I do like the balance of power and fuel economy.

 
T

Toyota-san

Guest
would not be satisfied with the Cavalier or the Saturn you mentioned . . and I don't believe I suggested that.
I was just asking a simple question: how long should we expect the 1zzfe engine to last?

What's so hard about that? Other folks didn't seem to have trouble giving direct answers. I think I see your point, but it's not relevant to the question.
Again, how long is a piece of string?





 

gramparsons

New member
would not be satisfied with the Cavalier or the Saturn you mentioned . . and I don't believe I suggested that.
I was just asking a simple question: how long should we expect the 1zzfe engine to last?

What's so hard about that? Other folks didn't seem to have trouble giving direct answers. I think I see your point, but it's not relevant to the question.
Again, how long is a piece of string?



Sounds like something an Fiat salesman would say if asked the same thing.

 

c2105026

New member
It all depends on many things - your travels, driving behaviour and maintenence. You cannot say x motor will last for 20 years. A car driven around town on 10,000km dino oil changes will not last as long as a highway car that uses mobil 1 on a 5000 km change interval.

Still I'd be surprised if it lasts as long as the 7A-FE because of extra moving parts and extra strain the motor is under.

 
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gramparsons

New member
OK, how about this question:

Would you expect that, all things being equal (service, driving habits, etc), the new engine would last longer or less than the previous generation (before the fzz) Corolla engines?

Is it build to last longer? Someone mentioned more moving parts. What, more valves? Is it under more stress because of the output/economy? Does the use of aluminum shorten the lifespan?

I don't care how long a string is.

 

the99contour

New member
Gram,

I've never know anybody with any Toyota where the engine died before 150k. Most of the people I know who have owned their Toyotas long term have between 200k and 300k with no engine problems. I have no doubt that Toyota has engineered the engine in the current generation Corolla to be just as reliable as the previous engines. As long as you maintain it properly, the engine will outlast your interest with the car.

 
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gramparsons

New member
Gram,
I've never know anybody with any Toyota where the engine died before 150k. Most of the people I know who have owned their Toyotas long term have between 200k and 300k with no engine problems. I have no doubt that Toyota has engineered the engine in the current generation Corolla to be just as reliable as the previous engines. As long as you maintain it properly, the engine will outlast your interest with the car.
Many folks have said that.

My interest with the car pretty much ended the minute I drove it off the lot. It is strickly a how-cheap-can-I-make-my-100-mile-commute decision. It's been good so far, but the longer it lasts the better that equation gets.

So, I'm already out of love with it. Even when I do decide to get an around-town vehicle (boy, do I miss my F150) when the 'Rolla reaches beater status (at 55k on an '04 model, she's still a loooong way from beater but it won't take long to get there), I'm hoping to drive it into the ground and leave it in a flaming heap on the side of the interstate.

Then, I'll probably go pick up another cheapest-to-drive car. If the 'rolla makes it to 300k, it'll probably be another Corolla. Something less than 200k, then there are more attractive alternatives.

 

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